Podcast 225. Starting Strong in Real Estate with Steven and Amber Liddle

Average Joe Finances:
0:01

Hey, welcome back to the Average Joe Finances Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Cavaggioni, and today's guests are Steven and Amber Liddle. And they are with Patriot Investing. Is it Patriot Investing Group? Is that what it is? Patriot Investment Alliance. Patriot Investment Alliance. See, I want to make sure I got that with you guys because we connected not too long ago through a mutual connection. And after getting to meet and know these two. They had to come on the podcast. What they're doing is absolutely freaking awesome. I know Steven just retired from the army not too long ago. And Amber's doing some amazing things like you guys make, you're like that power couple team that like everybody should be looking up to. So I just want to say I'm super excited to talk to you guys today. Thank you so much for joining me.

Amber Liddle:
0:49

Thank you, Mike.

Steven Liddle:
0:50

Absolutely.

Average Joe Finances:
0:51

All right. Hey, so right off the bat, I want to start things off the same way I start every podcast episode. Now I know a little bit about the two of you because we've talked before, but my audience might not know who you are. So if you could you guys share a little bit about yourselves? Tell us your story. Who is Steven and Amber Liddle?

Steven Liddle:
1:10

Absolutely. I'll actually let Amber go first on this one. She's a way better opener. Go ahead, babe.

Average Joe Finances:
1:15

Right on.

Amber Liddle:
1:17

That's not true. He's way better at speaking. Yeah, where to start. We're both career military. We're both in the army, both officers in the army. Joined pretty young and both retiring pretty young too. That's pretty cool that we're able to retire kinda young and so a few years we retire yet too. I'm retired. I will officially be retired, so technically I'm doing my Skills bridge program, C S P. I'm doing that with Band of Brothers now.

Average Joe Finances:
1:42

Oh, so you're pretty much retired right now too then?

Amber Liddle:
1:44

Pretty much retired now.

Average Joe Finances:
1:45

Okay, so about dual retirement. That's what's up.

Amber Liddle:
1:47

Yeah. Yeah. We met in the army, got married in the army, joined our families together. We're a blended family in the army and we're trying to just do as much as we could in the army. But then when we got close to that retirement age, Steven knew that he was going to have to retire a little bit early. He retired at 18 and a half medical retirement and then I'm retiring at 20. We knew as we started looking forward that we were gonna have to move into some sort of civilian career. We wanted to do something that was worthwhile. We wanted to spend more time with our kids. We didn't wanna go to a GSS job, so we really started like planning our retirement. I'd say three years out from retirement where we put pen to paper, we put numbers on paper, we started saving. heavily and a few things started to happen that helped to make that happen for us. Just, coincidentally we fell into some pretty good situations financially. And one of those you probably remember was the water crisis situation on Red Hill. Yeah. So we were in that.

Average Joe Finances:
2:45

That was a big deal out here.

Steven Liddle:
2:47

Yeah.

Amber Liddle:
2:48

Yeah. So we were in that. We were both active duty at that time, that was way 2021 to 2022 and the army had to put all of us up in hotels during that time because we couldn't drink our water, right? So for three and a half months, we lived and we bounced around hotel to hotel. But because of that, we got a lot of per deal. So we did what we could to save as much money as we could. We, ate ramen and peanut butter and jelly, and we went out to dinner a few times, but, we really understood what it meant financially if we could just save during that time because we were going to get compensated. We also got compensated for a lot of the lost items we had in our home and things like that. So that was part of our strategy was that plus the market is doing really well. We sold both of our homes during that time instead of hanging on to them. And really just created a plan to be financially stable for retirement. So we really put pen to paper and we put like numbers down of where we want it to be, what we wanted to pay off, we wanted to be completely debt free by the time we retired, we wanted to have a certain amount of money in the bank so we could start investing before retirement, which is what we did. We developed patron investment alliance. Last year, so before either of us were retired, we got that going, started looking at deals and then get our first investment just in June of 2023. So it's been fast and furious. But going from military to civilian has been a bit of a transition for us. We're learning every day We're busy as all get up. But it's a good busy and we've been getting connected some really great people.

Average Joe Finances:
4:28

Yeah, that's awesome what a fantastic opening because and it also brings to the point that i'm still very upset that I never met you guys when you were out here in hawaii cause I was out here at that time as well. But yeah, so that, that was definitely a very big deal out here with the Red Hill and everything that happened there. But the fact that you guys were able to utilize that and save a lot of money because of that helped accelerate you guys a bit. Towards your goals, right? After being in Hawaii, you guys wound up where are you at now?

Steven Liddle:
4:59

We're in Texas. Yeah.

Average Joe Finances:
5:01

All right. So now you guys are in Texas. You guys sold your properties. Did you guys buy a home in Texas?

Steven Liddle:
5:07

Yep. We actually built one.

Average Joe Finances:
5:09

There you go. Perfect. So built a home, hopefully you built your dream home out there in Texas, right? And I'm sure you've got plenty of money left over from selling those other properties, right? And now getting into, you got your first deal knocked out in June, this past June. Which is amazing. So I'm really excited because you guys are doing some awesome things. And I was very fortunate to be a guest on your podcast. So I'm really excited to have you guys on, on my show right now. And if you could really quick what is the name of your podcast that you guys just started?

Steven Liddle:
5:40

It's actually called The Patriot Pod,

Average Joe Finances:
5:42

The Patriot Pod. I love it. And again, I think I was guest number two or episode two. So I'm really I love it guys. This is awesome. Now there's another thing you guys are doing. I just want to start, Get this all out there for people that are listening at the very beginning here because maybe not everybody's listening all the way through you guys have something that's coming up right that's pretty big and I want to make sure we share it with our listeners, especially for the folks that are down in the San Antonio, Texas area, but you guys have a relay race coming up right and this is to help veterans it's to help identify the veteran suicide pandemic that we have going on, with our, in our veteran community. So if you guys could share a little bit about that, and then we'll actually get into the interview, but I want to make sure we get all this information out straight up front.

Steven Liddle:
6:29

Yeah. What you were just mentioning is very near and dear to my heart. I recently had a very dear friend. Commit suicide. So we all know that it's a common number that around 22 veterans commit suicide every single day. So being that Amber and I were set to retire, I retired on July 19th. As a warrant officer from the army, that gave me a unique perspective because when I went through the med board, I didn't want that. There was nothing in my mind that said, I want to retire before 20 years. I wanted to reach that landmark just like everybody else does, but the army forced me to medically retire. And what I wanted to do since that was happening was immediately give back to the veteran community. We, Amber and I both wanted to find ways to add value because that's what we wanted to do in the army. Like our entire mindset is how do we add value? And that's where we look. We look for opportunities to add value, no matter if that's intellectual capital or sweat equity capital or whatever it is. We want to add value no matter where we go. So to tie in the real estate piece of this. We purchased a 319 South Olive here in San Antonio, and Angie is our founder of our nonprofit organization, and she had to move to Florida. She's a phenomenal real estate broker, real estate agent, and investor, and she also started the nonprofit organization that we now run called American Spirit Alliance. We have a website. Everybody can check it out at americanspiritalliance. org. We're up on social media. We started building out Facebook. We have to build the Instagram, the X, the tick tock, and, you name it. But you're right on November 11th, we have our biggest event coming up of the year, and that's a 22 mile five man relay race and the route of which has a lot of historical importance because there were old I would say not old, but. The soldiers of past generations would march all the way from joint base, I'm sorry, Fort Sam in San Antonio for those who want to look it up. They would march 22 miles up to the north to Camp Bullis to execute their field artillery training. So the tie in for me is that I was a field artillery soldier my entire career. So there's automatic interest. There's automatic equity for me in my mind on joining Angie's effort to keep this going because COVID shut it down, just like COVID shut down a lot of the country, it shut down Angie's nonprofit organization until we got connected to her. And she basically put this in our lab and said, I want you to run this project as veterans. And I want you to run with it and I want you to make it big. So the intent is to start off by impacting the veteran community in San Antonio, because here they call it military city, USA there's air force, Marines, there's every branch of the army that you can imagine, or I'm sorry, not army, but the United States armed forces here in San Antonio. So what better place to run a nonprofit that's centered around helping veterans. Not only the veterans that commit suicide, like we want to do that. That's a very near and dear part of my heart personally, but we want to give back in a way that increases the quality of life for veterans that are still serving and the veteran, I'm sorry, the soldiers that are still serving and the veterans that have served. And there is a large demographic of both of those communities here in San Antonio. Our intent is to grow it. To multiple states, we want to grow it as big as we can, because there is a lot of impact and value right going back to that, that I think we can add as we move forward.

Average Joe Finances:
10:16

Yeah, no, that's awesome. So I'm glad you guys were able to share that and get this out there because it is important. It's also something that's very near and dear to me as well. Any time that there's an opportunity to give back to the veterans or even our active duty members that are still serving today. I'm all about that. And if getting this out there can help, spread the message not only for this race that's happening in San Antonio, but to help it, expand to other areas, I'm all for it. So I think that's a really amazing what you guys are doing. Okay. Now, let's talk about how you got to the point where you can actually do this, right? And which is what you're doing right now, which is real estate, right? Two successful careers in the military. Stephen I know you didn't make it to retirement, but dude, 18 and a half years is nothing to sneeze at. Okay. At all. And the fact that you made it that far and as a warrant officer, right? So for those that don't know, a warrant officer is somebody that was enlisted and got selected for a commissioning program and commissioned as a warrant officer. We call them Mustangs in the Navy. I know you guys call them Mustangs too in the army. There's a lot of respect that comes with that title of Mustang. I can tell just by the fact that you were selected to warn officer that you were very hardworking, very hard charger, and that you took care of your soldiers. I want to thank both of you for your service, like right off the bat, because what you guys do is really important, right. And continuing to give back, man, you guys are still continuing to serve. So it's absolutely amazing. So let's talk about your real estate journey, right? Because this is one of those things that's helping you still continue to be able to give back and continue to serve. So let's get into it when let's talk about your first deal, right? So the deal that you guys had that closed this past June what kind of deal was it? And how did you find it?

Steven Liddle:
12:01

That's a great question because that one was a very big learning point. But before I start running with my trains of thought, I think Amber could probably describe it a lot better. She's much more succinct. Then I am. So if you want to, if you want to take this one, babe.

Amber Liddle:
12:23

Yeah, I think the big lesson learned for us over this last, cause really, when we look back, June was not that long ago, but it feels like we've been running and going for, a year now and it's because of the people that we've gotten connected to. Our lesson learned is. Get connected to the right people, be the kind of people that other people want to be connected to, be good to people, be good stewards of your own character and what you're putting out there in the world. So we try to teach our kids that we have teenagers, and we just, I think we just got connected to the right people. We knew we were coming to Texas. To the San Antonio area. We wanted to be here because it is so military friendly. And, San Antonio is military city USA. That's what it's called. We had no idea how much support we were going to have when we got here, but it has been amazing how much support and the opportunities that have come our way because of it, just getting connected to other military groups and people and just networking. It's been awesome. So that's really how this first deal. Came into our lap. We found Melina Bercher was our realtor. We actually found her on YouTube because we were doing research, right? We're hustling. We're trying to figure it out. We're listening to you. We're listening to other podcasts about real estate. We're doing our research. We formed our group. We figured out like, how do we even do this LLC thing? How's it going to work? We started doing board meetings like every, Okay. Week where we would present each other different deals that were in different areas. We were looking in Hawaii at 1st, but the Hawaii market is crazy all the time. We're like we're moving to Texas. Let's start looking in Texas. Our 1st step was to get on YouTube and. To look up how Canyon Lake was doing, because we knew we were going to move to the Canyon Lake area. So we were like let's just start doing some research out there, see how the market is for short term rentals, because that's what we wanted to do with short term rentals. Ran into Melina Bercher, who actually lived out in Hawaii. Her husband was military, so they had that military connection. We reached out to her because that's another lesson learned from us. Don't be afraid to reach out to people. So we were just. Crying to make things work. We had no idea what we were doing. None of us have a real estate license. We're both getting ours now, cause we see the value in it, but at the time we're just trying to figure it out so we can reach out to Melina. She started sending us some things. And we found this home that ended up being a really great deal from another investor. Who really underpriced it in the market and didn't realize it. They had a realtor that just really, we believe, underpriced it now knowing what it appraises for. And that's the one that we went and looked at a bunch of different ones. I came down to Texas for seven days. And we went to a bunch of banks while we were here. Myself and Brian, your friend Brian, who's also part of Patriot Investment Alliance. We went to multiple banks, introduced ourselves to presidents and vice presidents of banks, just trying to make those connections again and met with Molina while we were here and looked at probably 17 houses were here and through that found this 1 deal that we really thought was worth it out on Canyon Lake. Lots of lessons learned through that. We ended up financing it with 1 of our members, but then doing a quick claim deed and putting it the title under our investment group with the proper equities and things like that. So we ended up doing a 25 percent down on it, which we were all prepared to do. We came to the table understanding how much money that we all had. Some of the lessons learned in that were. We didn't have seasoned money in the bank because each of us had our own pots, right? So when we went to the bank, we're like, yeah, we're each going to put in this much. They were like wait, you're supposed to have it all in one account and it's supposed to be seasoned. And so we were trying to figure out some unique ways that we could, get that done without having seasoned money in one bank account. So that was a lesson learned there. But we ended up, we, these people were going to pull out of our deal if we could not close on time. And like they were looking once the appraisal came back and they realized that they undervalued it, they were looking for any reason to get out of this contract and we were trying to figure out any way that we could just make it happen without having to miss that closing.

Average Joe Finances:
16:43

Did you guys tell them what it appraised for? Cause they shouldn't have gotten that information.

Amber Liddle:
16:47

Yeah, they knew what it appraised for and they so what happened was the lot next to it was included in the deal. They didn't realize how much it was worth and they wanted to keep that 2nd lot. And then when we were like, okay, you can keep the 2nd lot, but take $40,000 off and they were like, we don't want to do that. So we ended up getting 2 lots for the price of 1. so it was okay. It was good. It's good for us. So now we have the ability to expand. We want to put some boat storage out there because it's right on the lake. But we weren't sure if we were going to be able to close on time because of the season money thing, but we figured it out. We worked with our realtor and our banker and we got it figured out. We closed right on time. And Steven came for the closing. I was still in Hawaii and we started short term, rinsing that thing in mid June. We closed the 17th, we were written it out by like the 25th.

Average Joe Finances:
17:41

Oh wow.

Amber Liddle:
17:42

So we were like quick turnaround, like we were hustling. I was sending Steven all over Texas, picking up furniture, decorations. I was telling the guys how to decorate things. It was a cool lesson learned.

Average Joe Finances:
17:54

Okay, right on. So this first deal short term rental up on the lake, right? And obviously if if you were already renting it out that quickly, it looks like it's doing well and cash flowing. So that's good. And then on top of that, you got that lot right next door and you had mentioned like doing boat storage, right? That's especially on a lake too. If. People, people don't want to drive trailers back and forth, right? There's a spot for them and they keep their boat, at a reasonable price and keep it stored. I'd jump all over that too, right? So that's that's great that you guys are thinking that way, right? That you said, Hey, we've got this lot now. Let's actually do something with it. But that's that entrepreneur mindset that the two of you guys have, right? Okay. So you got this deal closed. It's things are moving. It's cash flowing. You had Steven going all over the state of Texas to get this thing furnished and decorated. What happened after that? What's the next steps?

Steven Liddle:
18:49

So that was a huge project. The part that we didn't mention was I lived in that Airbnb until it was furnished. I was sleeping on the couch for a few days. Until we collected enough furniture. We got the beds, we got things like that. Then I started actually sleeping on a mattress, but we knew that there were so many values. not values, but lessons learned. There was so much that we learned through that experience that we were hungry for more. So Patriot Investment Alliance came back together. We realized that we had additional cash to put down on something and we got connected to, I don't, I really don't remember how we found it. We were all looking on every Avenue. We were looking on Zillow. We were looking on Redfin. We were looking.

Amber Liddle:
19:34

On Victor, that's how we found it was victor.

Steven Liddle:
19:37

So we were looking at bigger pockets. We were getting connected to different realtors, things like that. And we ended up now that I, now that you say that. So Victor was the one that actually had the listing. He was the the agent for this one. And we met Victor face to face great guy. We still work with him. He works all the way from Dallas down to San Antonio. He's got a great system that parts of that we definitely want to emulate in patron investment alliance, but he gave us three 19 South alley. If we went and looked at it because it was specifically a three Plex that has a huge lot. So if you're familiar with, and I'm sure you are shotgun houses, they're not very wide, but they're very deep. That's this lot. It's not very wide, but it's very deep and it has three houses on it. There's a main one in the front and then there's 222s in the back and it's funny because Melina is calling me right now. So we went down there, we looked at it, we got connected to Angie Boris and that's where things really went off. And the second deal that we took down was 319 South Olive. We came in looking for traditional financing. But what was awesome was that we actually got seller financing on this one. So seller financing is an amazing opportunity for a lot of would be up and coming or seasoned real estate investors to take a look at. Some of the things that, that, that are coming down the pipe with as far as what I'm aware of so we are now looking for sub two deals, we're looking for more rental arbitrage, and we're really looking for more seller financing. But Angie and Tommy Ray, who is our current mentor, they came up with the idea of doing a seller financing. So we put 20 percent down, I believe correct me if I'm wrong, babe, but the home price for the three plex was about 645 or 625. I'm not the best with numbers and I got to put that out there. My memory is not great. TBIs and, things of that nature, but that was a really great deal. We ended up taking that one down. We got the cash together. We figured it out, right? We had I would say before I go any further, real estate is a team effort. You cannot do this alone. You got to get connected to people. You you've got to pool resources. You got to find ways to perhaps JV or joint venture some opportunities. Jump into a syndication, perhaps find some unique ways instead of just putting down 20 percent and then you buy a property and then you pay the mortgage and you figure it out after that fact, like your strategy has to come before you put monies down. Yeah. So that's exactly what we did.

Average Joe Finances:
22:10

You got to be creative. But Steven, I want to ask you real quick. So you said you guys put 20 percent down. Was the rest of it seller financed? Did you guys seller finance 80%?

Steven Liddle:
22:18

Yes. Yes, we did.

Amber Liddle:
22:19

It was 15%. We put 15 percent down. Okay.

Steven Liddle:
22:23

15%.

Average Joe Finances:
22:23

Yep. Right on. And then seller finance 85%. That's freaking amazing.

Steven Liddle:
22:28

Yes. The terms were 15 percent on 625. I think we ended up putting about $96,000 down on that one. Roughly again, I'm not best with numbers, but there was a 30 year amortization on that loan from the seller with a 10 year balloon payment that we could refinance out of before the 10 year mark, which is absolutely what we plan on doing.

Average Joe Finances:
22:50

That's those are actually really good terms. I agree.

Steven Liddle:
22:54

Nice. I agree. And what I would say to that point is we, I believe, I truly believe that we ended up finding that deal and creating that deal because we asked the right questions and we networked with the right people and we treated them well. Real estate is not a get rich quick thing. I want to put that out there and I'm sure all of your listeners know your listeners are way more smart than we are, but I would just emphasize that point for my own edification because. We're looking at a deal right now that's worth 1.7 million dollars. And it's basically a fourplex, but they're four separate homes. It all comes in a package. Those are the lessons that I need to remind myself of and our investing strategy needs to follow those principles because in real estate, you can get greedy, you can fall into a trap, you can fall into a bad deal. So it takes constant vigilance and it takes constant networking and it takes actually treating people well.

Average Joe Finances:
23:54

Yeah. All very great points. And also I would want to add to that, that it also takes, the courage to take action. Because there are a lot of people that could sit here and look at deals all day. And then if you don't actually do something about it, you're just going to be the person that continues to look at deals. So I've been there myself, just looking and looking until I find something that sticks. But the point of that was I wasn't actually taking action. Like I wasn't actually going out there and making moves to make it happen. It was, I was just, tire kicking. So I can say that because I was one of those guys. But yeah you see a lot of that though. You see a lot of people that are always just like looking and I especially have dealt with that as a real estate agent. I've dealt with a lot of clients that are just looking right now and not really ready to commit to anything. The fact is that you guys are going out there and you're not just looking, you're going out there and you're taking action, right? You had that extra cash and you were like, Hey let's do something with this right now. Let's not sit on it. That's pretty amazing. So you guys, back to back, right? Got that first deal done, getting right into your second deal, not wasting any time. And that's, that's how you scale quickly. And that's what you guys are doing right now. So I'm pretty excited about that. But okay, so you got the first deal done. You got the second one, right? So you got the it's three units right on that shotgun lot. So they, they go three back to back, right? Did you guys close on that yet or is it.

Amber Liddle:
25:13

Oh yeah.

Average Joe Finances:
25:14

Okay. Okay. So that's.

Amber Liddle:
25:15

We actually inherited two longer term rental tenants. Okay. So the larger house, it's a three bedroom and two, two bedrooms. So the three bedroom was being arbitraged. By the owners, and he was set to keep that for another few months. But then when we bought it, he's yeah, I'll just go ahead and get out of it. So he arbitrage for about another month that we got the rent from him. And then we had another tenant that was set to be there for another year. And we just call him and we were like, Hey, this is us. It's what we're doing. We're the new owners. You've been here for a while. What are your intentions? Do you want to stay here? Cause this property is right downtown San Antonio, right behind the Alamo dome. It's in a great location. You can walk to concerts and UTSA games and all those kinds of things. So he wanted to stay. But then he let us know the week after he's you know what? If you guys are going to be short term rendering, renting these other ones, I'll just go ahead and find another place. And we were like, yes. So we can turn that one into a short term rental too. We would have had him for another year and that would have been fine. We were prepared to do that. It came with immediate cash flow, but we really wanted to turn them all into short term rentals just because of the location and how valuable they are.

Average Joe Finances:
26:23

Yeah, absolutely. In a good location like that, you're going to get way more bang for your buck making it a short term rental than just doing the, the long term monthly rentals and things like that. So what about that specific area? Have you seen any issues with any possible laws that might be coming on that would hinder short term rentals because you start, you were starting to see a lot of that now, right? That there's popular areas where short term rentals are doing really well, but then the local governments are like really trying to cut down on that. Do you guys have any fear for that, for any of the areas where you're investing in right now?

Steven Liddle:
26:58

Absolutely.

Amber Liddle:
27:00

Although Texas is pretty good with regulation, but yeah, overall.

Steven Liddle:
27:04

Yeah, I agree.

Average Joe Finances:
27:05

So do you guys have like backup plans, like a couple of different exit strategies for those properties if something was to happen, I'm knocking on wood that it doesn't though.

Steven Liddle:
27:14

Yes. I would say two things on that. There are heavy regulations so if you're, if your listeners are looking to if in. If they're beginning, right? Or if they just don't know this, whatever it is. So what we didn't know initially buying 319 South Olive was the 12 percent rule. So think of it in Cardinal directions. You've got a four blocks. So you've got one house, one house, one house, one house that creates a square. So you've got the North facing block South, East, and West. So 12 percent of the houses on any directional facing block can not be more than STRs, or I'm sorry, not more than 12 percent of those houses on any given block or street facing block can be STRs and that's in San Antonio. So that was one of the things that we realized we had to actually go down to the land development division down in San Antonio, and we had to talk to them about, okay, who's got STR permits that have actually been issued now? Are they elapsed? Are they still active? And can we still apply for one? And if so, would we surpass the 12 percent threshold if we were to apply for an STR permit. And so we got some information about the other STR permits where 319 is on that specific block. And we started reaching out to those other STR permit holders and found out that some of them don't want their STR permits and all they need to do is call and cancel them. So we can actually be Illegal. Now as far as.

Average Joe Finances:
28:39

Okay. So you guys, so they were already at the 12 percent threshold at that time. Okay.

Steven Liddle:
28:43

Yes, they were.

Average Joe Finances:
28:44

Yeah. See that's why I'm asking that question, right? Because different areas have different laws, different rules, right? So that 12 percent thing, could have really been detrimental if other folks were like, yeah, Hey, no, sorry. We're keeping it. Or if you had it as a monthly rental, would that still have cashflow for you guys?

Steven Liddle:
29:01

No.

Average Joe Finances:
29:02

Wow. Okay.

Amber Liddle:
29:03

Not unless it's like a furnished finder kind of thing, maybe. Could have done something like that. We've we've run the numbers always.

Average Joe Finances:
29:10

What about as a midterm? Usually that, that law shouldn't, wouldn't apply to midterm rentals. So

Amber Liddle:
29:17

It doesn't. Yeah. 30 days or more. It doesn't apply.

Average Joe Finances:
29:19

So if it was a midterm rental, would it cash flow as well?

Steven Liddle:
29:23

A little bit.

Average Joe Finances:
29:24

Okay. Okay.

Amber Liddle:
29:24

We can at least pay the bills.

Average Joe Finances:
29:26

Perfect. Yeah. Okay. So you guys did have a backup plan if things didn't, work out that way. Okay. Good. Now, did you know that before you bought the property? Did you know that there was that 12 percent threshold?

Steven Liddle:
29:37

Nope.

Average Joe Finances:
29:38

Oh. Oh, man. I'm glad you guys were able to make those calls and make that happen because.

Steven Liddle:
29:44

Yeah.

Average Joe Finances:
29:45

Rough.

Steven Liddle:
29:45

We would have gotten ourselves into some hot water. Yeah. And that's exactly why our investing strategy continues to evolve. We're learning lessons as we go.

Average Joe Finances:
29:54

Great lessons learned.

Steven Liddle:
29:55

Absolutely. We find ourselves in situations and we all come together. We have a Zoom meeting, much like we're having now, where we sit together in person and we figure it out. See, here's my cavalry coming in to help me out right now.

Average Joe Finances:
30:09

Giving you that forceful backup. I saw him just bust through the door like, what's up?

Steven Liddle:
30:12

Yeah. Yeah.

Average Joe Finances:
30:14

No that's fantastic. And I wanted to point that out because I think that is so important for my listeners to hear that, the fact that, you guys are still learning as you're going, and that could have been potentially a showstopper, but you said, Hey let's figure this out. And you got creative and you started calling these other permit holders. And they're like we're actually not even using this as a short term rental, so we don't need this. Permit anymore. So that, the fact of the matter is that you guys thought outside of the box, you got creative. You started making those phone calls, right? Same way that you even got the deal to being creative and doing the the seller financing. So obviously your mentor and Tommy's a really good mentor, right? Cause he helped you guys, think outside of the box and help you guys go that direction. So that's awesome. I just wanted to point that out. Okay. After that deal what's next for you guys?

Amber Liddle:
31:03

We did a lot after that. It's been a short amount of time, but we still have more.

Average Joe Finances:
31:06

I know you said this year has been a whirlwind, but please let me know.

Steven Liddle:
31:12

So like Tommy going back to what Tommy was saying or who you had mentioned, Tommy is he's a 33 year real estate investor who's looking to go more hands off. So rental arbitrage became our next endeavor. So on top of Patriot Investment Alliance, we also created Patriot Management, which is our property management LLC, because we jumped right into rental arbitrage. And what I love about this. As if you're able to get connected to the right people. Tommy just fell into our laps because we were at Angie's place. After we bought 319, she had a bunch of excess furniture. Tommy was there. We struck up a conversation. He was a J tech in the air force. I was a JFO, which is a Joint Fires Observer in the Army. Those two demographics of people work hand in hand together. So we nerded out on some stuff about, kinetics versus non kinetic warfare. Our Air Force versus Army, things of that nature. We got connected. We had a very great meeting the very first time that we met. Loved him. Wanted to stay involved with Tommy. We went to lunch a bunch of times. Learned more about him. He learned more about us. He felt that he could be confident in giving us some mentorship. And we even asked him if he could be our mentor. And the fact that he wants to do bigger and better things led him to broker a deal with us that we would start doing rental arbitrage on the majority of his properties. Some of which are still yet to be on boarded. You gotta put it into perspective. I've only been in Texas since May. The end of May. Amber's only been in Texas since the end of June. And now we're here on October 1st, I believe, right? Yeah, October 1st. So all of this, those two deals happen. We've got four STRs running now at this point, we have six rental arbitrage houses that, that we're managing for Tommy. We're doing property management there. But what I love is the fact that like that creative stuff that we were talking about, the rental arbitrage contracts that we signed with Tommy are, we're going to provide property management and we're going to provide tenants and we're going to pay the rent based off of market value for a period of 12 months. After which we as the renters have the ability to put in offers. through seller financing on any of those properties that we deem have the highest performance. So for example, we've got 1251 Canyon or I'm sorry, 1251 Canyon Shores is a three plex that I think I would love to purchase. So if we do decide as Patriot Investment Alliance do that, we'll put in an offer, say we get, seven, eight, 9 percent down, and the rest is seller financing on that property. Now we're soaking in another$600,000 property on Canyon Lake into PIA's portfolio. And we have the flexibility to assess. We have three options at the end of the 12 months. We can continue to rental arbitrage. We can end that contract, or we can put a purchase or we can put an offer in and have Tommy seller finance those deals for us. So it's a win, win across the board and it helps. It helps both parties. It sounds selfish, but it's really not because when you are seller financing different properties, you can take those rent rolls and that additional stream of income over to a financial institution that you have a relationship with. And you can actually have them lend off of those things, those different streams of income that you have. So that's how we, so now we have we still have to onboard Verbena, we still have to onboard Soro Creek, and that's a land development project. All this is pretty much happened in about four or four and a half months.

Amber Liddle:
34:53

So we just put it in and we just put an offer in on one with Tommy to actually joint venture on that large acquisition out on Canyon Lake, which is why Melina was calling us because she has some news for us. So we're excited for after this to get that phone call.

Average Joe Finances:
35:08

Awesome. Awesome. I'll try not to keep too much of your time. This is good stuff. So I'm really, I'm really enjoying talking with you guys, especially just hearing your story. Again on the stuff that you sent me, how you said, like this year has been a whirlwind. I feel like that is an understatement for you guys. Cause Steven, like you said, you've been there since may Amber's been there since the end of June. And here we are October 1st and. All of this stuff has happened. And Oh, by the way, here's all the stuff we're working on. So you guys like went all in since since you got out and then also Amber, you are now in your skill bridge. So technically out. But man, you guys are crushing it. You guys absolutely crushing it. So I wanted to ask you then, since you're able to like work on all these and find these deals, and also you guys have been very creative with how you do it and how you finance these deals what are you doing to actually find the deals? How are you like, do you guys skip trace? Like what are you doing to actually find the properties that you're interested in?

Steven Liddle:
36:10

I think, I've already spoken enough. Keep doing that to me. Do you want to take this?

Amber Liddle:
36:17

It's strictly, everything that we have found is just through our networks. We aren't out there looking on any platforms. We're actually not looking for deals. I just got another offer from another guy that we met through Angie for yesterday. He was like, Hey, I'm selling this house. This is how it's performing. He sent me all his rent rolls. I'm getting rid of my portfolio and he, we met him through Angie and Tommy. It's just, we've been getting connected to people. And they're just bringing us deals. We're not because we're actually too busy. We're having to tell people. No, we had another guy come to us. We got on a zoom meeting a few days ago. It was like, I don't like my manager. Can you guys come do arbitrage at my house? And we're like, we don't have time. Like we just are too busy. We're growing too rapidly and we can't keep up. So we're not even doing any of that yet. We're not even looking for deals. I guess it's a good problem to have.

Average Joe Finances:
37:12

Yeah, that's definitely a good problem to have.

Steven Liddle:
37:15

I don't want that to make us sound lucky. What I want. I just want, and Emma is absolutely right, but I want to emphasize the point that asking the right questions and staying hungry, staying, one of the things that the Army taught us is that everybody that you come across, So if I'm a CW2 and I come across an E4, there is a bit of a relationship that exists there already because of rank structure. But if you take the approach, no matter where you're at in life, That no matter who you run across, if they can teach, if you think of them as somebody that can teach you something it opens up, that, that sort of natural career curiosity about people. And that's what I think that we did. I think we got, it doesn't matter who we got connected. We could have gotten connected to, Joe Schmo, random homeless guy on the street. And that's a bit of an exaggeration, but yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah. Bob Schmo or whoever it is. That's what I think we did. Like I said, real estate is a team effort. We, we came together, we knew where we wanted to go. We had to figure out how to get there. And then we just started asking the right questions and making sure that the people that we were getting connected to. Knew that we wanted to add value to them. And I think it's a very reciprocal process. It's a reciprocal cycle when you add value to other people, and you're not selfish and things they're willing to bring us these deals like Molina the 1.7 million dollars deal that we're looking to take down a Canyon Lake, she called us and was like, Hey, I've got this thing. It's, you guys got to move fast because. I'm about to send my photographer over there and it's going to hit the MLS very soon. You guys got to get out there. You guys got to figure it out. And you guys are the first ones that we called and we haven't been working with Melina, but for a few months.

Average Joe Finances:
39:05

Yeah you must have left a good impression, right? But I think the biggest takeaway from this is the networking piece that you're talking about, right? That the both of you had mentioned. And I know you said you don't want to sound lucky, but it made me think about a quote. I've been watching and listening to a lot of videos on stoicism, right? Because I'm really trying to get into that mindset and there was a quote by Seneca that said it was luck is what happens. When preparation meets opportunity. So these opportunities are presenting themselves, but you guys have prepared for it. You've made that preparation by making that preparation. You've networked with the right people. So these opportunities, they're not just falling into your lap. They're coming to you through the preparation and the work that you guys did up front. So I want to point that out because you guys definitely aren't lucky. You guys are out there actually putting in that w o r k, right? You're making that work happen. I think that's the first thing that came to mind when you said I don't want it to sound like we're lucky. That was the very first quote that came to my head. So I wanted to put that out there because you guys are doing awesome. Thank you, Mike. Hey, listen. I know you got to take that call in a little bit. So I want to go ahead and transition this into something that I call the final round. It's where I'm going to ask the two of you the same four questions. I ask everybody that comes on the show and it helps give us an idea of how you are under a little bit of pressure, but peek a little bit deeper into your minds which I'm pretty sure you guys are going to crush this. So if you're ready to go we'll get that party started.

Steven Liddle:
40:33

Let's run it. I'm excited.

Average Joe Finances:
40:34

So Amber and Steven, what is. The biggest mistake you've ever made when it comes to your finance or business life?

Steven Liddle:
40:46

Guns.

Amber Liddle:
40:49

Are you saying you buy too many guns? I agree. He buys too many guns.

Average Joe Finances:
40:53

You live in Texas, so it fits. The shoe fits.

Steven Liddle:
40:56

Okay. That was the test round. That was a ha funny. Now we'll actually do it for real.

Amber Liddle:
41:04

So what are your thoughts?

Steven Liddle:
41:04

Either who goes first?

Average Joe Finances:
41:06

No, it could be either together or what's the biggest for the both of you together, the biggest mistake that you guys have made finances or business. Let's see if you guys have the same answer. Okay. Dun. The pressure's on.

Steven Liddle:
41:21

That's a good question.

Amber Liddle:
41:23

Maybe not going down this route sooner. We are like serial entrepreneurs. So we've been looking at opportunities for years and years. We tried for a Chick fillet. We got pretty far in the interview process for that. We were going to do that. And we, one thing. That we did well, I think, is because of our military mindset. We would sit down and at our, on our lanai in Hawaii, three years out from retirement and just brainstorm. What can we do next? What can we do next? We failed at this one, right? Chick fillet didn't like us. Nope, no Chick fillet, like we didn't get into special forces. We didn't get that done. I didn't become a doctor, there's all these things that we tried to do and failed at, but we just flipped it around. We're like, okay, what's next? What's next? What's next? That's not really an answer, but. What did you take anything from that? You, Steven, my husband.

Steven Liddle:
42:14

Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I took a lot from that. I would have said the same thing. I focused. I think we both did we get, we, in the military, you can get caught up in where you're going in the military, the next school, the next deployment, the next promotion, whatever it is, that's what I think we did wrong. It may not have an impact on us financially because we were, going through the ranks, we were deploying, we were saving money, we were doing the right things, but when it comes to what we're doing now and the initiatives that we have now, the lines of effort, so to speak, it did put us a little bit behind the power curve. But we're doing what we can now to make up for lost time.

Average Joe Finances:
42:50

Sure. Yeah. And that question was based off your finance or business life. So that answer is perfectly fine. So awesome. Now this next question, these all kind of tie into each other, but this next one is what is something that you've guys have learned that you wish you knew when you first started out?

Steven Liddle:
43:10

You want me to take this one?

Amber Liddle:
43:11

Sure.

Steven Liddle:
43:12

Taxes.

Average Joe Finances:
43:15

Okay. Oh, what is it about taxes that you, that that you wish you knew?

Steven Liddle:
43:20

So what we did not do very well in the beginning is we got bank accounts. We were putting a lot as with any business venture. So it goes back to any successful business owner or serial entrepreneur, whoever on average, they start seven businesses before they get it right. And I think we just didn't have any other option. So we've messed up a lot in the beginning to include taxes. And we got connected to Amber actually has her, one of her best friends here in Texas is an accountant. And when we started asking, when she started asking the right questions, we could not give the appropriate answers. So that led to us having a discussion that led to us getting connected to a right CPA. And we have a lot of work to do before we reach this next tax season. So for me, I just wanted to have that security, that sense of confidence. That moving into the tax season, we weren't going to get hit. There's a lot of tax implications in anyone looking to invest in real estate or be an active real estate agent or a non active real estate investor, no matter where you're at, please find yourself a good CPA.

Amber Liddle:
44:32

Yeah. And it's not that we lost money through taxes, but it's that we weren't organized. And I think we, we hit the ground running too quick that we didn't have our systems in place yet. So we're now backtracking on that and getting everything organized as far as like the QuickBooks and all that stuff, so we can track things properly where we probably should have done that at the front end.

Average Joe Finances:
44:54

Yeah, right on. So I just I got a tax attorney now, right? That's helping me out. And same thing. I was just like, here I was. I thought I was good. I was always doing my taxes every year myself. And it started to get to be a little bit too complicated as things have progressed. And I was at the point where I was like, I can't do this anymore. So finally got, yeah. The right person to talk to and it was hard because in Hawaii, it is hard to find somebody especially that understands real estate, that understands business, and it understands all of them together in one package can be very difficult. Yeah, I am very glad to have this person on my team now. Yeah, cause that can be very painful especially when it comes to. And actually one of the first things he pointed out to me too was like, Hey dude, like your shit's all over the place. You got to figure this out. And I'm like, Oh, okay. I can't, he's you can't just hand me like a bunch of junk and expect that this is going to happen. This is what you need. Then he told me like, this is how you need to organize it. And I'm like. Okay. Okay. That's good. So I've got, I got pointed in the right direction. And I think that's important. I don't want somebody to, hand, walk me through things, tell me what to do and I'll do it. But the fact of the matter is. Hey, this is how you got to do it. And to me, that was very helpful, so I just want to say I totally resonate with your answer to that. Okay. The next question that I have for you, Amber and Steven is, do you have any tips or tricks that you would recommend? To somebody who is just getting started out today. Think back to May of 2023. What would you say to somebody that's maybe getting out of the military or somebody that's in a nine to five job and they want to start investing in real estate? What would you tell them to do?

Amber Liddle:
46:31

You want me to talk?

Steven Liddle:
46:33

I know. I know where we're going with this one. 1, 2, 3. Network.

Amber Liddle:
46:38

Yes. But I think more than that, too. I think we were just talking about this on the way down. We were talking on my trip down here and I think a lot of people just think that they can't do it. Success is not for them. They don't really try. Because however, we're raised or whatever, we were raised pretty poorly, Not with a lot of wealth growing up, not taught about that. And I think most people just don't try very hard because they don't think they can. And so they just settle for mediocrity. Not that they can't do it. It's just that they don't believe in themselves. So I would say yes, the networking piece is important and start doing that before your transition from the military. But also don't count yourself out for anything, you're. You can do it too. Like most people are like sure you had all the money in the world. That's why you could invest. That's not true If you ask the question that a lot of most people are sacrificing a lot to get that kind of money Putting a lot of money back, you know eating peanut butter and jelly so you can save that money Yes and ramen like I was going I was purposely going tdy away from my family For most of 2022, like a lot of 2022, I was gone TDY because I understood that I was going to make some more money that way. Like I was going to give per diem and we were going to stock that away because it helped us towards our goals. And just, I think a lot of people aren't willing to sacrifice in a lot of ways. So don't be afraid to sacrifice. Don't be afraid that you can't do something because you can believe in yourself and then yeah, network with the right people.

Average Joe Finances:
48:13

Absolutely. Yeah, I love that. Love that answer because it and this also ties back into everything that you guys have been talking about throughout this entire interview. About. About this networking piece and the opportunities that it's provided to both of you. And so that's, to, to offer that advice to somebody that's brand new coming out is that's the perfect piece of advice. I think that the two of you could give somebody because look at what it's done for you. In such a short period of time. So that's absolutely awesome. Okay. Final question of the final round. And I will preface this with, cause I know you guys just started your own. I'll preface this with besides your own. Do you have a favorite business investing or real estate related book or podcast or both?

Steven Liddle:
49:03

Real estate investing, business, podcast, book, or all of the above.

Average Joe Finances:
49:09

Yeah. Yeah. So it business investing or real estate book or podcast or both.

Steven Liddle:
49:16

I'm actually going to go with a non traditional book here. Cause one of my favorite authors is John C. Maxwell. Do you know where I'm tracking on this one?

Amber Liddle:
49:28

Me?

Steven Liddle:
49:28

Yeah.

Amber Liddle:
49:29

He has hundreds of them. But I love John C. Maxwell to which one are you thinking?

Steven Liddle:
49:34

So one of the actually the first one that came to mind was Robert Kiyosaki. The second one that came to mind, which I actually resonate more with is John C. Maxwell and his book failing forward that, it doesn't touch on anything business. It doesn't touch on anything, real estate, no podcast, nothing like that. But I think in order to be successful in anything, you've got to have the right mindset. And much like Amber was talking about this specific industry, which is real estate investing, it does take a specific mindset. There are a ton of risks. And you are not going to be successful. We were not successful. Everything that we've said so far on this podcast, I don't want to paint us as successful. I would rather see us as people that just failed until we got it right. And that's what that book is about. A lot of people glamorize and what is TikTok and what is Instagram and what is Facebook? And what are all these social media posts about? It's about when life is pretty. It's about when people are succeeding. It's about when people are at their best. But it's the stuff that we don't see behind the signs or behind the scenes that really leads them to that success. It's the struggles. It's the late nights. It's the tears. It's the sweat equity. It's all the intangibles that build who you are and help you, guide you, so to speak. It's your failures. It's the deals that don't go through. It's the showing after showing with no offers getting put in. It's no sales happening. It's all these things. That eventually you find the right deal, something happens, and then you build momentum on that success. And that's where I think for me, that's what I resonated with the most, because I'm not a very confident person at all. I'm a self deprecating riddled with insecurities kind of person who is just not very confident. But I understood, that. No matter what failure looks like, it's okay to fail. It's okay to fail time and time again. And it's not the end of the world because you are, after the 99th time of failing on the hundredth time, you might get it right. That's how Edison. Created the lightbulb thousands of failures until he got the lightbulb right until it like happened. So if you take that mindset into this specific industry, you're going to do just fine.

Average Joe Finances:
51:56

Yeah. Steven, I just want to add that for someone that, that has all these insecurities and looks at himself that way. I gotta say, you don't put that out there like that.

Steven Liddle:
52:05

God, I hope not.

Average Joe Finances:
52:06

You talk with authority. You you talk with authority and experience because you've been through it, yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. All right, so that is it for the final round. Pat yourselves on the back. You survived. You made it. Bravo. Wasn't that bad, right? But I do have one more question I have to ask the two of you. And this is going to be the most important question of this entire interview. Because you guys have put out some great information, especially for some young hungry people that are getting ready to get started in real estate or that have just started their journey, got their first deal done. And they're like, Hey, what's next? What do I do next? Seeing what you guys have done is going to give them That piece of motivation, that extra oomph that they need to keep moving forward. So with that being said, where can people find more information about Amber and Steve and of course, Patriot Investment Alliance and the American Spirit Alliance and this race that you guys have coming up, please share your website links with us, any social media profiles we can follow for both. That would be very helpful for our listeners to. To find you guys and get connected.

Steven Liddle:
53:12

Yes. Social media manager. You got this one.

Amber Liddle:
53:16

Yeah. We're just getting it all up. I am not, I have actually been off social media since 2020 and I just now got back on just because, I knew that I was missing out on a lot of things as far as my family and friends, but also with business, it's very important that you get into the social medias. So we're trying to figure it out. We're learning. We do have patriotescapes.com. Is our actual off Airbnb VRBO platform, booking all in one where you can see our story. You can see all the properties that we're managing is patriotescapes.com. And then we're also on Facebook, Patriot Escapes. And we have a, what's that thing called Twitter? No, not a Twitter. The other thing, the the thing with the. Tick tock tick and the X thing so tick tock and Instagram. I just haven't really figured out how to do those. I got to get my teenagers to help me with those but we're trying to put up some things on the Facebook. We're constantly just trying to get materials. We just went and got my dad's boat. My dad left me his boat. So we're going to add that to our portfolio. We're going to be working on it over the next year. So people can see how we're doing that, how we're working on that thing. It has some damage to it that we need to get fixed. We're going to revitalize it, bring it back to its glory day. Yeah. Hopefully, people will be able to see that story over the next year. We'll be able to use it next summer. So we're starting to do that. And then we also have American spirit alliance. That's on Facebook and we have American spirit alliance dot org, which is the nonprofit. So you can find everything about that relay race that's going to happen on November 11th on American spirit alliance dot org.

Average Joe Finances:
54:53

Awesome. We're going to have those links in the show notes to make it easier for people to find you guys and to check out that race and for anybody that wants to support it please visit and help make this a really great success for our veterans and our active duty members that are still serving. Again, I'm really humbled by what you guys do both in your real estate business and also what you do for the veteran community. I think it's absolutely amazing. It was an absolute treat to have both of you on this podcast today. I can't thank you enough for taking the time out of your day today to join me. Amber, I know you had to run out of town for a little bit and you were able to like make some time to hop on here. I really appreciate you guys spending this time with me.

Amber Liddle:
55:37

Yeah. Thank you, Mike.

Steven Liddle:
55:38

One other thing I would add just quickly, no more than 20 seconds. Check us out where the Patriot pod. You can find us on YouTube. That's yes.

Average Joe Finances:
55:45

Yeah. Hang on real quick. Yeah. That isn't, I am totally sorry. I forgot about that guys. Where can we listen to your podcast and you have a website for anything like that? Because I definitely want my listeners to go check it out for sure.

Steven Liddle:
55:59

Yeah we, it's a large complex network of things. We don't. We're just on YouTube for right now. So please check us out if you like anything, give us a if you would like to subscribe, the main thing that we want to do is help veterans, their family members, whether you're active or retired, figure out how to get into real estate, we're bringing on guests much like you did on our second episode. We want to help people understand and amalgamate the knowledge of everyone that we get connected to. We'll put that knowledge on our podcast. So it cuts through the confusion on how to use your VA loan. What are the specific resources that you have in the military community or their family members, because they also qualify for things, their spouses, their children, how do you start growing wealth? Specifically via real estate. And we're also going to have some guest speakers on there from different nonprofit organizations, because that's something that's very near and dear to our heart, obviously with American spirit Alliance, but we're also there. Please check us out.

Average Joe Finances:
56:59

Awesome. Yeah, definitely go check them out on YouTube and we're going to talk some more about getting you guys up on podcast platforms offline because you guys definitely need to be out there getting your message out to as many people as possible. Again, Amber, Steven thank you so much again for taking the time out today to talk with me and share your story with our listeners. It was definitely a great experience. I enjoyed this conversation very much. I hope you guys did as well. And it was really fun. So thank you again.

Steven Liddle:
57:26

I agree. I have to say thank you, Mike. What you're doing you're just steps ahead of us. We're taking as much as we can learning from you and trying to follow in those footsteps and add our own little approach to things. So well done for you. I love what you're doing, man. I follow you on almost everything. So I see what you're doing out there and it's awesome, man. I really respect that.

Average Joe Finances:
57:46

I appreciate it. I appreciate it very much. And hey, I also want to say to all my listeners out there, thank you so much for joining me, Amber, and Steven on the Average Joe Finances podcast today. Go leave us a five star review and tell us what you liked about today's episode with Amber and Steven. Aloha from Hawaii and have a great rest of your day.