Podcast 175. How Land Flipping can Make You Wealthy with Ray Zhang

Average Joe Finances:
0:00

Hey, welcome back to the Average Joe Finances podcast. I'm your host, Mike Cavaggioni, and today's guest is Ray Zhang. So Ray, super excited to have you on the show. I know we're gonna talk about some awesome things regarding land flipping and also what you do as a coach for land flipping. Welcome to the show.

Ray Zhang:
0:16

Absolutely. Thank you, Mike. And it's been honorable to be here.

Average Joe Finances:
0:20

Yeah, the honor is all of mine and I appreciate that so much. Hey, I wanna start this off the same way I start every podcast episode, and we wanna know more about you. So if you could share a little bit about yourself, share your story. Who is Ray Zhang?

Ray Zhang:
0:35

All right. So I came to the United States about 11 years ago. I went to Hawaii in the north part. I was studying in the university. And then I became Eastern homeless because I didn't know I didn't bring much money from China, because my family did their best, but there was not too much money. So I came to Hawaii and I lived in the car for about three months. So after that I started to flip a lot of different stuff, like I grabs things on the street and try to sell on the Facebook. I went to Craiglist and tried to find free stuff and sell it back on Facebook. So this is what I did when I was in school. And then after about five years of, or six years about hustling, I came to to land flip about four years ago. It's been a great journey. And this last year, I should say, it's already New Year, right? So last year. We did almost 900,000 profit land flip.

Average Joe Finances:
1:31

Okay. So that's profit you said?

Ray Zhang:
1:33

Correct? That's profit.

Average Joe Finances:
1:35

Wow. Okay. Okay. Fantastic, man. Okay, so let me get this straight. So you started off, you were going to school and you were like, okay, you just started flipping whatever you could, you were finding stuff for free on Craigslist. You even said something about you picked up a sink. Was it somebody had it in their rubbish and stuff and they were throwing it away and you picked up a sink and you sold that as well?

Ray Zhang:
1:54

I pick up or anything. Like a mattress. Yeah. Mattress. Table, chairs, whatever they don't want.

Average Joe Finances:
2:00

Okay. So as you're going through this whole thing and trying to figure it out I guess you finish up school, right? What made you like start looking at land? What was that aha moment when you were doing all this other stuff that you said, oh I think land should be the thing I should sell.

Ray Zhang:
2:16

Yeah, I actually didn't finish school. I got kicked out the first year after school. Because they don't want me to do any business. But it was the whole point of living doing business. Why do you have to wait until you graduate? So I started to do that when I was in school. They find out that kick me out. And then I just flipped cars for a living for many years.. And during the time I flipped cars, I tried different kinds of real estate. I dunno, what's your experience in Hawaii market? But for me, I've tried to wholesale houses, I tried to do virtual whole selling houses. I just couldn't work well for me in Hawaii. So that doesn't work so well. And then I try to find a different method to do real estate. And then I find line about four years

Average Joe Finances:
2:59

Okay. Yeah. So you tried different aspects of real estate out here in Hawaii. I get it, man. It's definitely tough out here. My actual quote unquote day job right now in Hawaii is actually being a real estate agent since I retired from the Navy. So yeah the market is pretty tough here. Even when it's good it's a tough market, right?

Ray Zhang:
3:14

Absolutely.

Average Joe Finances:
3:15

So it's just you got a lot of investors out here with big money that come out and make things pretty hard for somebody just starting out to, to get involved, right? Yeah. But now you said something else too that, that caught my attention is that you were flipping cars as well. How does that work? Because I've heard of this before, where people will find a car and. Sell it for a profit. But were you repairing them? What would you do to make it, were you able to make a profit?

Ray Zhang:
3:39

So I think my strength is negotiation. So I can go to, okay. Any car the private sellers, I can go to them and try to get it down to very cheap price. And then I don't really do much to the car normally. I just vacuum it And then I'll put it back for sale. About a year ago when I left Hawaii, I was making about $40,000 to $50,000 per month profit doing cars alone. That was very good years, I think. But right now I try to do land full-time and land is much easier and you can do it. Virtually anywhere. So it is not like cars. You go to a vacation and you have to stop that. So there's no way you can flip cars when you're on vacation.

Average Joe Finances:
4:22

Yeah, no that's interesting though. But you said you were making 40k to 50k a month doing that. You're gonna have to teach me your ways, man. That's , that's pretty amazing, especially out here in Hawaii. You were doing that, I'm out here in Hawaii. So if that's something to look at, man I'll take a look at that's pretty cool.

Ray Zhang:
4:34

I actually just create a course on that, so if you're interested, I can send it your way.

Average Joe Finances:
4:39

Yeah, man, shoot it to me, man. That's pretty cool.. Ah, very interesting. Okay, so again you pretty much flipped whatever you could, right? And you were doing quite well with flipping cars, so what made you say, you know what I wanna, I'm gonna flip land instead.

Ray Zhang:
4:55

Yeah, so I, when I was flipping cars, I do land on the side when I go back home. Okay. Because people won't come out to check out your car after seven or eight o'clock. Right?

Average Joe Finances:
5:03

Where were you doing it at though because you were flipping the cars on Hawaii. Where were you flipping the land at?

Ray Zhang:
5:08

I was doing all over the place in Arizona, Colorado. Florida, Texas by then. Okay. But right now I'm in much more different markets. But by then I was in the four markets and I never been to any land I sold and bought but I just do it virtually.

After about 7:00 PM 8:
5:22

00 PM well, nobody come here and look at my cars. I will start to try to find deals in the mainland because in the mainland it's still daytime, right? Try to utilize more time.

Average Joe Finances:
5:32

Okay. Yeah. That's fair. So you started flipping land and you were doing it while you were out here in Hawaii and you were in a different market. Now things have shifted for you, right? We talked a little bit off camera about where you live at now, and now you're in Florida. So what kind of markets are you looking at right now for land.

Ray Zhang:
5:50

For land right now I'm in about 45 different markets. In what do I mean by markets is counties. So I'm in 40 different counties in about eight or nine different states. Over the place at aside from Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Texas, I'm in North and South Carolina, Georgia just Hawaii, big Island. Just all over the place right now.

Average Joe Finances:
6:10

Okay. Oh, even on Big Island too?

Ray Zhang:
6:12

Yes.

Average Joe Finances:
6:12

Okay, awesome. I was a buddy of mine was telling me he, he had started picking up some pieces of land and, he gave me this website, I was checking it out, I think it was called Priced or something, and he's, he was finding these different lots and he started picking up some lots in, in Arizona and stuff. I'm not sure what's going on with that, if he did anything with it yet or not. But I was looking at it cause it was like land up for auction, which was pretty neat. Some of it was as cheap as 700 bucks, which I thought was pretty cool. I didn't really understand the process though, so if you could walk me through what does the process look like from start to finish when you find a lot of land that you're like, okay, this lot I think can flip, I think we can use this one. What does that process look like when you find it, purchase it and then, sell it and flip it in the future.

Ray Zhang:
6:57

Right? So when we bought the land, it's actually from, directly from the land owner. We never go to any website or auction sites to buy land because there's a lot of competition there. And whatever for a couple hundred dollars is not a super good land. I assume, you can maybe make money, but not that much. So right now I do land, so I will pick a county first. So market selection is the step one. So what do you do on market selection is you want to find a market that has quite a bit of sold in the last three months. So I'll tell my students you have to have at least about 40 sold for land in the past three months for that county. So that's the first requirement to pick a country. And after you pick a county, we have some formula we follow to make offers. I made a podcast with Joe McCall. On that you guys can search Joe McCall, Ray Zhang, and you'll find our interview is specifically on how to make offers. So that's basically the second step. And after you make offers, you just send out the offers to the landowner. So they'll call you to, they either tell you to, f off, right? Or you'll find me with offer. Or second respondent will be, they want to sell their land, right? Sorry. They either sign of the offer letter or they you. I am ready to go ahead and sell this. And then we negotiate on top of that offer price. So we try to bring down even more price on, on top of the offer price. And after that we purchase the land, we sell it back to the market by listed by realtors on the MLS. So that's pretty much the whole simple version of how the deal works.

Average Joe Finances:
8:34

Okay. Yeah. And you actually list it with realtors on the MLS, so you're selling it for a price point high enough where you're able to afford paying the realtor as well?

Ray Zhang:
8:44

Absolutely.

Average Joe Finances:
8:45

Okay. Fantastic. Now, yeah. What are you doing to reach these buyers directly?

Ray Zhang:
8:50

The buyer, I don't do much. The realtor will do it. They'll communicate. That's why you can go to many markets at the same time. A lot of people try to save money and try to wholesale the land, which is a big time waste. You can definitely save the realtor fee by doing that, but you cannot save time.

Average Joe Finances:
9:06

No. Like when you when you pick your counties that you're gonna go into, right? Like you find that county where there was 40 sold in the last year., what are you what are you doing to market to the I guess the sellers, sorry, I said buyers. What are you doing to market to tho those land sellers that the folks that you're trying to pick up those pieces of land from? What are you doing to find them.

Ray Zhang:
9:23

I send a direct mail. Okay. In the mail has an offer letter. So that's we make offers before we send it out, and then we send out the offer letter with a price on there.

Average Joe Finances:
9:33

Okay. Yeah, so it's very personal. It's not like one of those blanket, direct mailers that you get. It's Hey, this piece of land right here that you own, we're gonna offer you this much money for it. Get back in touch with us.

Ray Zhang:
9:46

Yeah, definitely. That's something like that. Yeah. I tell my student, your direct mail is your little army. They kill all the non-motivated sellers. So only the people who are motivated to sell you, they either motivated to curse on you or they're mo motivated to sell their land,

Average Joe Finances:
10:02

Okay, that's fair. Yeah. They're either gonna curse you out or they're gonna say, yeah, you know what I'll sell you my land and then even then, there's probably gonna be some negotiation in there because they might say, oh maybe a little higher than the price you offered me, or whatever, it gets your foot in the door. So I think that's the important thing. I hear a lot of people talk about that too, like with direct mail just for real estate in general, like a lot of wholesalers do it. I've done it as a realtor and I felt it, especially when you do like generic direct mailers, I felt like that was a waste of money for me. But it seems like, the way you're doing it makes it very personal and direct speaking directly to that individual. And I think if you're doing something like that, it makes it more, more palatable for them to, to wanna read it and look a little further into it.

Ray Zhang:
10:42

Absolutely.

Average Joe Finances:
10:42

That's awesome, man. Now, throughout your land buying journey, I'm pretty sure you've encountered some crazy things, right?, what is maybe one of the craziest things you've seen when purchasing a piece of land?

Ray Zhang:
10:53

I have seen like a lot of crazy price. I bought the land and that happened to me when I bought and sell cars. So if I'm not sure if my negotiation skill is that, that good, but I always got killing bills. What I mean is super cheap bills. I got a car in Hawaii for a hundred bucks. I sold it for $2,500. So nobody believed that. And I bought a land ocean front for $700. and when the owner bought it in 2001 for about $155,000. So I bought it for 700 bucks. Just I think, I guess that's crazy. I got two line for free last year.

Average Joe Finances:
11:29

Yeah, that is a crazy number. And you say oceanfront, like where was that at what state?

Ray Zhang:
11:32

South Carolina.

Average Joe Finances:
11:34

Wow,

Ray Zhang:
11:35

Yeah.

Average Joe Finances:
11:35

Okay.

Ray Zhang:
11:36

It's in a small island. You have to take the ferry. Yeah.

Average Joe Finances:
11:38

Yeah.

Ray Zhang:
11:39

Yeah.

Average Joe Finances:
11:41

Wow. That's awesome, man. Actually I've heard of a couple people that are buying, they try to buy like whole islands out there now, and turn it into whatever. But that's amazing cause even with something like that, somebody could build like a private, secluded. Airbnb or something like that. I There's a lot of stuff you could do with land like that, especially on an island like that.

Ray Zhang:
11:58

Absolutely.

Average Joe Finances:
11:59

So that's pretty amazing. That was that because the person originally bought it at that price and then someone else inherited it and they just didn't wanna pay the taxes on it. Did you ever run into situations like that?

Ray Zhang:
12:10

Absolutely. So in this case, for the ultra in front one. So she just wanted to claim a lot on her text. So she said, if you can close, if you can close within a week, that's yours. I said, okay that's something I can do. Yeah. So a lot of people sell their land for different reasons. I have a lot of people doubt this because they think, oh, if they know how much their land is worth, how, why do they sell it for that low? They actually do, people have different reason. That you don't have. As for instance, I got that two line for free and one of them is the guy is so old, he's 80 years old and he got my offer letter for 8,000 bucks and he saw the offer price and he still tell, told me, Hey, I don't want your money. Just come and send me the deed. Let's close it. I don't want it because it brought him so much paying in the past the city gave him a fine, or there is a DeLuca in taxes but not that much. I paid about $1,500 on the back taxes and everything. So I sold that land for $16,000. People get rid of their land for different reasons.

Average Joe Finances:
13:09

Yeah, that's a little over a hundred x return if you think about what you had to pay for the taxes. So that's that's pretty amazing, it's funny though, because like when you dive a little bit deeper into some of these and you see some of the reasons that people sell. It goes to show that not every story's the same, right? Not every piece of land's always gonna be the same. It's the same thing in any piece of real estate, right? What you're doing right now at, with your land flipping, is you're helping people solve problems that they might have. I never would've thought of, somebody saying, oh yeah, you know what? I'll sell my $150,000 piece of land for 700 bucks because I get to claim this huge loss on my taxes. You know that's probably somebody who did really well that year and they need something to lower that bill.

Ray Zhang:
13:47

Absolutely. So you never know what they would do. Yeah.

Average Joe Finances:
13:52

Yeah. All right, man. Awesome. Now that's some of the craziest things you've seen now with the car flipping. Now you had mentioned that there was one that you bought for a$100 and you sold it for $2,200. How do you find something like that? Just in general? I'm just curious.

Ray Zhang:
14:07

The first rule, was.

Average Joe Finances:
14:08

That like Facebook marketplace or?

Ray Zhang:
14:10

Yeah, I believe it was Craiglist by then, but I used two both of them. Again, if you want the course, I can send you and so there's two ways you can find deals. One is Facebook Marketplace, and then otherwise Craiglist. The first rule of finding a good deal is to, so you cannot just sit there and people will be like, oh, where's a good deal? Where's a good deal? So the good deal is when you find it diligently. So for example, when flip cars. I look at my phone every 15 minutes for new listings, for cars. Every time I'm just flipping the phone and you can, there is always deals here and there, especially in Hawaii market. That's extremely easy to flip cars, very easy. I wish I can do the same market here that. I tried something here. It is, it's just not as easy because Hawaii is in general a vacation place. People stay there for a very short time, and when they leave, guess what? They have to sell. They have to sell their house and then their house and the cars. And when they get there, what do they buy first? The car, right? So you can have the boat market and you don't see much, like a downturn sometime, even on Christmas you can, I remember there was a day when I was in Hawaii, there was like a huge hurricane, whatever, nobody on the street, right? and I was living in the penthouse in Honolulu and I see, I look down, there's absolutely no cars. So that day I saw the car. There's, every day you can find a deal there.

Average Joe Finances:
15:33

Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, step one, find, go find that deal. Okay alright, Ray I want to ask you then, so besides just the car flipping, the land, flipping, obviously everything that you've done you've been very successful at. But I know it took a lot of hard work to get there. So what would you say are your steps for success just in life in general?

Ray Zhang:
15:53

Just what do you say in the background? Work hard and hustle. I like that. Yeah. You got it already. And what do I mean by work hard? Work hard when you don't want to. Work hard when everyone tell you're crazy, right? I got this all the time, especially for my wife, and she's you work, always work, work. All of it's work, even. Last last couple weeks is during Christmas. So we went to Dallas and visited the in-laws. And even in there I still working. I brought my mic here and attached their table. I got all my computers and I start to do content. So this is how, what do you mean by work hard? And but I do take a day off every week. That Sunday I have to go to church. But the rest of the day. You work there at night. That's a basic line if you wanna make it.

Average Joe Finances:
16:37

Yeah, I like it, man. You got to hustle and you got to work. That's awesome. You even brought your mic and stuff there with you. That's awesome. So and you said create contents, like what kind of content are you creating? I know you have courses, right? What else are you doing? Are you like on social media anywhere? Sharing stuff.

Ray Zhang:
16:52

Yeah, absolutely. I'm mean Instagram a lot. My Instagram is called Virtual Flipland, so V I R T U A L, Virtual Flipland. And my content is more about land flipping and sometimes about car flipping. But mainly about land.

Average Joe Finances:
17:06

Okay. Right on. Yeah. Are you on TikTok at all?

Ray Zhang:
17:09

Yeah, I just create a TikTok.

Average Joe Finances:
17:11

Okay, cool. As I say, man, you got to get on that man. TikTok is like.

Ray Zhang:
17:14

Blowing.

Average Joe Finances:
17:15

The social media place right now, man.

Ray Zhang:
17:17

Blowing.

Average Joe Finances:
17:18

Yeah.

Ray Zhang:
17:18

I tell my wife, it just sometime it's scary to look at whatever other people post couldn't be careful. Don't drag in.

Average Joe Finances:
17:25

Yeah. Yes, for sure.

Ray Zhang:
17:26

Yeah, So.

Average Joe Finances:
17:28

Okay. Right on, man. Listen, I want to ask you four questions that I ask everybody that comes on this show. I call this the final round. And we can get as deep into this as you want to get into. But this is it's like to see, how Ray reacts when he is under pressure or putting a tough spot, but I'm pretty sure I know how you do that already because you're crushing it right now. So if you're ready to go, we'll get that party started.

Ray Zhang:
17:51

All right. Let's go.

Average Joe Finances:
17:51

All right, let's do it. Hey, first question is, what's the biggest mistake you've ever made in your investing?

Ray Zhang:
17:59

The biggest mistake is you invest something you don't know. So as far as investing, that's different from doing business. Doing business is you get the money in, right? So investing is, you get the money out and try to put a safe place. If you don't know anything about that subject, do not ever invest in there. I remember when I was about one year after the college, I went back to China because I flipped cars. I got like $30,000 on my pocket. So I brought that into China. In China if you have$30,000 as a young age. So that's a very good place to be, right? And then I came to this this guy, he is, looks super like supermodel type and I became friends with him. I went to his company and he showed me, all these different models and singers or whatever on the pictures. So I got super excited. I was like, how do you, how do I invest in your company? Let's make something happen, right? So I invest all that$30,000 into his company. And then he gave me like a position to be in his company every single day to look at the operation. But eventually I lost at 30 the company got bankrupt because they, what they do is They try to recruit people in, but they never produce any TV show any show at all. So just look nice, look shiny, but inside is like a empty shell company, so you have to know what you guys in. Yeah. Very Be careful.

Average Joe Finances:
19:27

Yeah. Oh, okay. So that, that is that's definitely a big mistake that you that you've definitely learned from. Speaking of things that you've learned from that, that kind of carries into this next question is, what is something that you've learned that you wish you knew when you first started?

Ray Zhang:
19:41

There's a difference between what do you know and what you do, right? I know it by then, but I didn't do it. So it cost me a lot of time and. So what I made a mistake was I didn't focus. Focus is one thing every entrepreneur have to learn because by nature, entrepreneur have different, new creative ideas. So that this is just an entrepreneurs, right? So you cannot find a very numb and I just want to work for someone else to be an entrepreneur. That's impossible. So all the people who are very creative, they can be entrepreneur. But what's the problem? They always jump around. So there's always a new idea. There's a always a new shiny object. So there, there's the object is always shinier and you can earn more money in shorter time. So that's a formula, right? So be careful of that. Don't fall into that and otherwise you'll waste a lot of years of effort, money.

Average Joe Finances:
20:32

Yes. Get over that shiny object syndrome.

Ray Zhang:
20:34

Absolutely.

Average Joe Finances:
20:34

Okay. Awesome. All right okay Ray, do you have any tips or tricks that you would recommend to someone that is just getting started today?

Ray Zhang:
20:42

For landing medicine? Yeah. I would say just find a mentor and follow them. So do whatever they tell you to do. Either me or someone else. So you have to make sure first that mentor has results, right? And not something just lied to you. And secondly, You have to find what they do and you have to pay him to get his time right. I tell people, free stuff is always the most expensive. All the people want to do just go to YouTube and search and they do something. That's not gonna work. That's not gonna work. So just find someone who have results and follow that, that's it.

Average Joe Finances:
21:16

Yeah. I mean there's plenty of information out there for free, but it's how you apply it that you need to learn and you're gonna learn that from somebody that has the experience. That's important. I've always been a believer in coaches and mentors. I really believe that they will help you take your stuff to the next level, cause you're gonna pay for it. Either way. You're either going to pay for it by paying a coach or a mentor. or you're gonna pay for it by making those mistakes that you could have avoided if you had a good coach or mentor help you along the way.

Ray Zhang:
21:43

Absolutely. Yeah, you'll end up paying more by that way. Yeah.

Average Joe Finances:
21:46

Yeah. You'll get your master's degree for sure. At the same cost , so all, okay. Right on. Oh, okay. Final question of the final round. This is a opinion-based question but do you have a favorite business investing or real estate related book or podcast, or, both?

Ray Zhang:
22:02

Yeah, I do. I have a lot. So do you mind if I share.

Average Joe Finances:
22:05

You could share a couple those. We won't go, let's not get out of hand.

Ray Zhang:
22:09

All right. Give me 20 minutes. Just kidding. But yeah.

Average Joe Finances:
22:12

So the second half of the episode.

Ray Zhang:
22:14

Yeah. So I love couple books especially. My specialty is negotiation. I can go to any markets, you can learn it. You taught me Ray. Get rid of all your belongings and throw me in any city in the United States, I can survive and thrive. I can guarantee you that because of negotiation skill. So how do I become a master of a negotiator? It is a couple books. The first one is, Never Split the difference by Chris Voss. So that guy is a hostage negotiator. So you can what do I mean by never split the difference? You, when you negotiate with a criminal for the for the hostage, you cannot tell the criminal, Hey, let's just split half you, keep half. I'll keep you the other half. So that's not gonna work. So the second book is called Flip the script, yellow small book, not the Pretty girl one. There's another girl wrote a book called Flip the Script with her picture on it. That's not the book, right? So the yellow book is the one I talk about. And there's a third book is called Go For No. So very thin book, but it absolutely can change the way you talk, change the way you communicate with people. For example, if you go to a shop and that cashier just follow your run. We always have that experience, right? And they ask you, Hey, do you wanna buy anything or do you have any questions? So deep down we feel, right? Just keep there. Don't leave and I'll do my thing, right? But go for note. Tell you how to, how do you approach to sellers? How do you approach to buyers? You say something like hey Mike, I'm assuming you are not interested in this course, right? So just do something like that. And you said the opposite of what you wanted to say, and then they will do the thing that you wanted them to do.

Average Joe Finances:
24:00

Yeah. So basically it's like saying, we wanna force the no out of you. Either you're gonna say no or you're gonna, you're gonna move forward.

Ray Zhang:
24:06

Absolutely.

Average Joe Finances:
24:07

I like that. Yeah, I don't think I've had that book suggested on this podcast yet, so I'm gonna have to add that to my. The other two definitely. But yeah, I've not heard of that one yet. Who's the author? Do you know?

Ray Zhang:
24:17

Go for no?

Average Joe Finances:
24:17

Yeah.

Ray Zhang:
24:18

Let me search real quick. Oh.

Average Joe Finances:
24:19

Should be able to find it. It's not a big deal.

Ray Zhang:
24:21

Yeah. It's it's written by this guy called Richard Fenton.

Average Joe Finances:
24:27

Okay.

Ray Zhang:
24:27

F E N T O N.

Average Joe Finances:
24:27

Awesome. Got. All right. And okay. What any podcasts that you like,

Ray Zhang:
24:34

Yeah, of course. Yours first.

Average Joe Finances:
24:36

Hey, there we go.

Ray Zhang:
24:37

Yeah, I know. There is a lot of and for real estate, there are so many of them. The real estate direct disruptors. I'm gonna be on the podcast in that march.

Average Joe Finances:
24:47

Nice.

Ray Zhang:
24:47

There is, Rich dad poor dad, there's Wholesale Inc. If you wanna listen to how to flip houses, there's a whole bunch of them. Very good.

Average Joe Finances:
24:55

Awesome. Fantastic. Okay Ray, so that's it for the final round. That's really all the questions I have for you. However, I do have one more question. It's the most important one. You shared already a little bit. We got your Instagram and stuff, but where can people find more information about you? Do you also have a website? What other social medias can you share with us well?

Ray Zhang:
25:15

I'm creating among us Instagram and TikTok. The tech there is virtual flipland, the same, right? So virtual flipland. You'll find me on Instagram and TikTok.

Average Joe Finances:
25:25

All right hey, for all my listeners, go follow his Instagram and his TikTok he's the real deal. Just having this small conversation here. This has just been really, eye-opening. I think I might want to try flipping some cars out here in Hawaii. Absolutely, I think that's pretty awesome, man. Hey, but thank you so much for joining me and our guest. Ray Zhang, and sorry I mispronounce it earlier. I normally ask that before we hit record, but be like, I have a brain fog right now was, I was talking with him off the air about this, but we have round two of Covid going through the house right now. So we're not all feeling the greatest but thank you so much for joining us on the Average Joe Finances podcast. Go leave us a five star review and tell us what you liked about today's episode with Ray. Aloha from Hawaii and have a great rest of your day.